I wanted to let you sleep because I wanted to shower, but...so...there's something developing that— check group chat.
Love...
I don't want to be fake. I want to air it out. And I just wanted to wake you up because I wanted to check— I wanted you, I guess, to know before...
Why do you feel the need to air it out, love?
Because every time she mentions something like that, it leaves a bad taste in my mouth because it still makes me think about the time when you were upset about this and they literally, like, acted like it's not that big of a deal when it was a big deal to you. Love, that went on for months. So yeah, I'm kind of still mad about it...
So, um, before I said anything else, I wanted to check with you if it's okay to speak my mind.
What do you expect from me when you do?
I just— I am checking your comfort levels because I— I want to speak my mind because I don't— I don't like feeling like—
You already know my comfort levels, love.
It feels a little fake when I'm trying to be nice to these people, but also, like, when they say something that triggers me, I get mad and I can't say anything about it.
Love, love, love. You don't have audio.
Hello? Okay. I already told you my comfort levels, love, when we were in that hotel in Cancun in the airport.
I understand that. That's why I woke you up because I was like, "Oop, it sounds like I'm about to start shit and I want to make—" I want to call you because I don't want to—
Love, you basically already did.
Again, I don't like how fake it feels to literally be trying to build a relationship with these people, and still have this in the background popping up all the time and I can't say shit about it, because then I—
Okay then, if you do speak your mind now, what do you expect from me? Do you want me to keep out of it?
No, I want—
Or do you expect support? I'm just trying to figure out my part in this.
I don't... I don't want you to stay out of it or supportive, like, I'm not asking you to assume a certain role within it. I'm just— I just thought it was important to keep you informed.
Yeah.
It's not about asking you to do one or the other, love. This is about I don't want to do anything without you knowing.
Yeah. If you feel the need to air it out, then okay. But remember that you weren't there. But remember that you were not there because I can also see Jamilla get defensive and being like, "Oh, but you weren't even there, so why is this a thing?"
Well, I am not mad about— Sven, I am not necessarily mad about that happening that—
Then what is it that you're mad about?
I'm mad about how it affected you and how it was dealt with afterwards. I'm mad about, like, how they handled that afterwards. I'm mad about the fact that there was no real genuine apology. There was no real acknowledgement. That even when you tried to voice your feelings, it wasn't even properly addressed. That's what I'm mad about. I'm mad because that was heavy on your mind for freaking weeks after that.
Then just keep it to that, please. Because like we talked about last night, the reason that they weren't updated about the tests, yes, that did have to do with August or end of July, basically. But then again, like I said last night as well, me forgetting to update people about things that happened—that is a reoccurring thing. I don't see reasons to bring that into now.
It's not about freaking updating, love. It's about the fact that the whole time leading up to freaking December, the amount of breakdowns you've had over the Amsterdam dinner because you were so anxious about it because of that part, the part where you felt very uncomfortable with them because of the way they handled that.
Yeah. I guess just go ahead, love. In that case, just go ahead. I'm just asking you to fight about what is— how it is affecting you, that's all. So I'm not asking you to fight for me, love.
I'm not— I'm not trying to fight for you.
Okay.
I'm saying that I don't— it doesn't feel genuine to try to build a relationship with these people when literally—
I get that.
—like, they bring something up like that, it still triggers me and they don't know.
I understand that. What I'm saying is that I don't expect you to fight for what hurts me, because that is on me and I let it go quite some time ago now. I let go of that for quite some time because, to me, I don't see any point in trying to fight anymore because a lot of time has passed—
Just because—
—but also because Jamilla is always, for some reason, just resorting to violence.
Okay. But just because you decided that, "oh, well, I'm deciding to let this go because I don't want it to bother me anymore" doesn't mean that it doesn't still bother me, love. I'm sorry; your audio cut out.
Love, I do understand that. But that is also why I'm saying, then please fight for what you think is important. Fight for what it hurts for you.
Love, it hurt me because it hurt you. That— I can't separate that. What I think is important is you. Like you said, I wasn't there. Why would I be— why would I have beef or offended over my own thing? I wasn't even there. There's no my own thing. It's the way it affected you.
Okay.
Love, I'm still typing a response.
I know.
Please don't preempt me.
I'm not preempting you, love.
Okay.
I'm just responding to something that I wanted to respond to earlier.
Okay; I'm sorry.
I'm going to check on my laundry real quick, love.
Love?
Yes, love?
I am typing right now and I'm— but I'm in paragraph 3 out of probably 4 paragraphs, and I will— I want to send it to you to read through first, okay?
That's okay. Yeah.
Okay, I'm done.
When are you going to send it?
Text.
Okay.
I sent it.
In the second paragraph, there's an 's' missing at "but he tell me." He "tells" me a lot.
Okay.
Um, third paragraph; is it 'afterward' or 'afterwards'? I always feel like it's 'afterwards', but I don't— it might just be me. First sentence of the third paragraph.
I can make it 'afterwards', yeah. That way—
No, it's okay. I'm just not—
I'm not sure—
I'm just not entirely sure what—
I'm not sure, but I don't mind either way, so, I ended up—
—the right way is. Okay. Okay. Overall, I'm okay with the message, uhm...
Mm-hmm?
Overall, I'm okay with the message, It's just that in some parts, uhm, especially the later two paragraphs, the last two paragraphs, it very much feels like you are speaking out on my behalf, if that makes sense.
I mean, it's— I'm not trying to speak out on your behalf for the "I understand Sven is this way," I'm trying to— help me rephrase it in a way that makes it clear, then, that I'm trying to understand their perspective of "okay, you might not have been aware of this because" naturally, you don't generally like conflict so I can understand—
Yeah.
—why "it might not have ever occurred to you, but this is how it made him feel and I'm uncomfortable with that," does that make sense?
Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense, yeah.
Can I rephrase it in a way that makes that clear that I'm not necessarily speaking for you, I'm just trying to be like—
Yeah.
I'm trying to give them the benefit of the doubt, that you know, this might not have— it might not have occurred to them that this bothered you this much, kind of thing because—
Yeah.
—you generally, like—
I mean, especially the, uhm, the the last paragraph where you say, "But it really isn't normal or desired for Sven, and he basically spent"— like, especially "but it really isn't normal or desired for Sven" makes it seem like you are just speaking on my behalf as if you're, I don't know, my defendant, if that makes sense?
Hold on, let me try to think of how to edit that. Uhm...
That's okay. But yeah, overall, I'm okay with the message, love.
How about "it really didn't seem normal for Sven or something he wanted?"
Hmm...how about... Hold up, let me read that message or that line again. I think trying to step away from desired behavior, in general, would help. Because you could also just say, uhm, "because it basically was reason for trying not to break down in the entire week leading up and the days after the Amsterdam dinner because of how much he would flinch."
Can we say, that "it may not necessarily be for the other for the other person"? Like, okay, so, "I know this might just be another regular day for you and it might not even have occurred to you how it might have felt for him, but it— okay that doesn't feel right. "But it—" Okay, hold on. "It might not have even occurred to you how it must have felt for him, but...it didn't...really seem—" Ugh. The only words I can think of are even worse. "But it didn't really seem regular or acceptable."
*laughs*
That's not acceptable. It's unacceptable. Because those are what I feel. I feel like they're unacceptable—
No, I get that. I get that.
—for Sven. I'm also adding a phrase at the end where it says— I basically just added, "I don't want that for him" which sounds...or "I don't like that for him." And I've been trying to be very intentional about not bringing up, "yo, I had to talk him down from cutting you off so many times."
That's okay. I think it's best not to include that, yeah.
I've been very intentional about not putting that in.
Mm-hmm.
Okay, this sounds like fighting words; I'm sorry.
What does?
I'm sorry; I can't help it. Reread this last paragraph. I altered it a little and I just feel like if I don't, like, emphasize that, like it wouldn't click how serious it is, so... but it might sound like fighting words to add in 'audacity'.
Mm-hmm. Love, could you—
"But I can speak for myself—" I'll add in the—
Love—
Okay, how's [unintelligible] "but I can speak for myself and I was really not okay with that."
That's okay. But could you replace "but it didn't really seem regular or acceptable for Sven" and basically connect the following sentence to that? Because you can easily just replace 'but' with 'because' and then follow it up, "he basically spent the entire week leading up to..." Because again, that—
I don't think I really want to—
—"it didn't really seem regular or acceptable for Sven," it feels very much like you're defending me, love.
Fine, I will take out your name.
That works, too.
Okay, "but it may not...it may not really seem regular... it may not be— it may not necessarily be regular... it may not necessarily be...regular or acceptable for other people."
Yeah.
How about that?
That's okay.
Okay. So, this one, can you read it through and... okay, read it through.
Yes, love.
I'll change... "Sven basically..."
"I won't ask you to defend your actions—"
Did you hop in game?
"—because I know different—" Yeah, I needed to need something to quiet my mind.
Wait, no, no. Read the one after that.
Okay.
*mutters text she's working on*
"I'm not asking you to defend your actions because I know different people have different dynamics and I know this might be just another regular day for you and it might not have even occurred to you how it must have felt for him, but it may not necessarily be regular acceptable for other people. Sven basically spent the entire week leading up to and days after the Amsterdam dinner trying not to break down because of how much he would flinch and it would trigger when you used your hands for big gestures afterwards and I didn't like that for him. The action and the audacity of that committed action—" okay, what committed action?
Throwing books.
Okay, but that isn't necessarily directly mentioned at the very start, you know what I mean?
I did, love. I said— That's the very first thing I said, "Sven told me about books and heads and violence."
Okay. Yeah, no, that's true. You did.
So I'll add in, like, a phrase "the action itself," and then open parenthesis, "the books and the throwing," how about that? Close parenthesis.
Uhm, I would just steer away from that, to be honest, because that basically sounds accusatory immediately, so I would try to steer away from that.
Love, you didn't finish the sentence. The whole point of that sentence was to say, "hey, this was serious, but it's not my place to talk. But this is what I want to talk about. But I can speak for myself."
Okay. Let me finish that one.
Finish that first.
Yes, love. Uhm...
"The action..."
"The action and the audacity of that committed action was a very serious event for him, but it's not my place to talk about the extent of how serious it went. But I can speak for myself and I was really not okay with that, what was done and especially how it affected him and how heavy it weighed for him afterwards." Yeah, okay, that's— yeah, that is okay.
Is that okay with you?
Yeah, I should have read a little bit further.
It's okay.
It's on me.
It's okay. I'm going to hop in the shower after this.
Yes, love.
Ugh, that looks even longer when I post it on Instagram.
Mm-hmm. I know. It looks very long.
I want to follow it up with this. Is that okay?
With what, love? Know that she has just read the message.
I want to follow it up with this. Can you read it, please? Because I really want to post this right now.
Yes, love. "TL;DR Jamilla, it bothers me when you make jokes like that because it reminds me of the frustration of that period of 'this made me very uncomfortable,' 'then say something about it,' 'I did,' 'well, clearly, that message wasn't received because why else would they think it's okay to joke about it? That just feels disrespectful,' 'I've been trying so many times already, but they're not getting it,' and that was just an overall frustrating time on his part and on my part arguing about it." Yes, love, that's okay.
"So, I felt the need to air this out."
Yeah, I mean that— yeah. That seems like a— yeah, but that's okay, love. That seems like an obvious addition to what you already said, but I could understand why that she wouldn't get that, because there's been quite some messages already. Go get a shower, my love.
I know. I love you.
I love you.
I'm sorry if it feels like I'm speaking on your behalf.
Much less than it felt before.
Okay.
So that's okay. Yeah.
*timelapse during the shower*
Hey, love. Did you respond?
Sorry, love?
Did you see my message?
I didn't send a message at all, no.
Well, I [unintelligible]. Can you read my message and respond please?
Love, I have no idea what you're saying.
I messaged you. Can you read that?
Love, the audio is very, very quiet. Can you please speak up a little bit more?
I said—
What were you saying, love?
Can you read that?
Yeah, I have feelings, too, because now, all of a sudden, I have to do the conversation even though I didn't even feel the need to bring it up anymore.
Give me a second, okay? [unintelligible]
Yeah, but those are my feelings at the moment.
*timelapse*
Hey, let's talk.
Okay.
First of all, I want to apologize because I know you wanted me to leave it alone when we were in Mexico.
Yeah.
But it did still bother me. Did you respond yet?
No.
Yeah. So, I know that it's on me for digging this up again, but second of all, it also sounds a lot like they were not aware and they want to have the opportunity to apologize to you. In which case, I know you're not— you decided to let it go and you don't want to talk about it, but I feel like it's also fair to give them a chance to talk about it. Does that make any sense?
No, she already did in the very first message.
Love, that's— I understand that—
Love, she already— she already apologized.
I—
I don't feel like— I didn't even feel like it's worth bringing up anymore. I asked you in Mexico, please don't start a fight and you didn't back then. I'm very grateful for that still. That's why I was very grateful that you sent the message. But now, all of a sudden, she puts it as like, "Oh yeah, no, let me let me think about it because there's quite a lot to unpack." But I'm just immediately getting a notification like, "Oh, can we talk about it here because it's easier to talk about it in Dutch." Okay. Yeah, cool. But it's not even about that. It is not something that I wanted to bring up. It's something that you wanted to bring up. And all of a sudden, I am the one who has to respond.
Sven, can I say something, please?
Yes, love.
First of all, I did not start a fight. I—
No, love. I'm not—
No, love.
I'm saying [unintelligible].
I understand. I understand. I'm not— I know you're frustrated and I'm not frustrated right now. I'm perfectly capable of talking, okay? I'm not trying to start a fight. I know that I'm airing it out because it's my feelings and I wanted to check with you first. And I know that you said that you decid— you made your peace with it and decided to move on. You don't want to talk about it, but I did.
Yeah.
When Jamilla sent the "Thank you for telling me this. I need some time to reflect on it because it's a lot to unpack," how I'm understanding that is, not necessarily all of it, but most of this is probably news to them. And so she's like— part of it is like, she wants to clear it with you first, because like— to get things straight or to understand this properly. But also, part of it is also, like what she said in that message, it is more difficult if it's a second language that they're not used to speaking all the time, finding words for those— You have problems finding words for those feelings and you speak English more than them. You already have trouble finding words to put your feelings— to put your feelings into words or finding the proper phrases. So, obviously, she's like, "oh, this whole ass, what, 4, 5 paragraphs and I have to respond to it in English? I have no idea how I'm supposed to do that."
Yeah.
To me, personally, when you sent me that screenshot, I felt very much like, "okay, well, I was the one that brought it up, and now you're excluding me?"
Yeah.
That's how I felt about it. But also, I'm like, I can see why, like, "to you, you probably have a lot of questions and you probably want to talk, but you don't know how to talk about this because it's this language." When I said I have feelings about this, I meant I don't want to be excluded. I don't want it to sidetrack to another app and talk about it there. If she feels more comfortable talking about it in Dutch, it's fine to talk in Dutch in this group chat. That's okay. I will deal with it.
But also, also what you said, love, because that's also what I thought. I was like, "well, I'm the one that brought it up. You want to talk about it with him? Because I'm the one you're supposed to be talking about it with because this is my problem. I'm talking about my problem with you here." So if you say something like, "Hey, I already decided I don't want to talk about this. I've already decided to move on from this a while back. This is mostly Kyla's issue now. Why don't you talk to her about it?" kind of thing, then that's fine to say.
But also, they are allowed to ask you questions if they felt like they have not had clarity about that at that time. So if they feel more comfortable doing that in Dutch, they can do that in this group chat. It's fine with me. I understand that it might be harder because of the foreign language part. Does that make sense?
That makes sense, yeah.
How do you feel about that?
I'm okay to that. But still, love, I didn't ask to have this brought up. And that's what I have the biggest issue with. Like, I was fine with you— That's why I said like, "okay, just bring up your part in this. Like your worries, your concerns. That is that is for you to talk about. That is—" I didn't ask you to fight in my position or fight for me, defend me, or whatever. I definitely did not ask you to do that. And now all of a sudden, it's just—
I know.
"—please check your messages" in the group chat because I suddenly have to clear it out with her, because I didn't even choose to—
Sven, I am sorry. You can say that. "I didn't even want to be involved with this. I'm over this already. She's the one that still has a problem with it." You can say that. Put it on me. It's okay. I am sorry. I'm sorry that you got dragged into this and you didn't want to. I know you really didn't want to get into this conversation. I am sorry about that. Sorry for dragging you in.
I know.
I'm sorry.
I know, love. I know you didn't want this to happen either.
I didn't mean to put this back on you. I didn't mean for it to blow back on you, but love, you can't deny the fact that you are naturally involved, and they deserve to have the chance to be able to clear it with you. I know you decided that you want to move on from it. You don't want to talk about it. But what if they want to make it cl— they want to clear the air, too? What if they want to clarify things? Love, I know that it's enough for you, that that first message is enough if she just said, "yeah, I'm sorry about that," that that is enough, but it— honestly, it's not enough for her. It's not enough for other people. Like, we do have to feel like we can talk freely about our feelings before we feel comfortable with it. I don't know if it's just a girl thing, but— to her, that was probably an intro and I know that that makes you uncomfortable because you don't like that and you don't like the feeling of that conflict.
No.
But love, I really feel like this isn't— no one is trying to fight you here. I really feel like this is just really try— just this is an attempt to repair. And I think you should give them that chance. I'm sorry that it feels like you have to sit in this feeling of conflict now, but no one's trying to— no one's trying to hurt you, love.
Yeah. For now, I just started typing the message to Jamilla, "I have let it go a long time ago, to be fairly honest, but Kyla is still", well, "struggling with it", but that's— the translation to English is over-exaggerating, in my opinion. It's just—
Over-exaggerating?
—that it's on your mind, is basically what the Dutch—
Over—
Overexaggerating, yeah.
Love, that's not a positive—
*interruption timelapse*
Love, 'over-exaggerating' is not a positive word. That's basically, what you're saying with that is, what it feels like you're saying with that is, I'm making it a bigger deal than it is. And I'm not.
Yes, love, that's—
I'm—
Love. Love. What I'm trying to say is, the way that I translated it to English, it's more like— the Dutch is [insert Dutch sentence] which, well in English, you would basically say "is struggling with it," but it's more like "it's still somewhere on her mind." That is more the overall feeling. So I'm not— I don't mean struggling, I mean more like in the sense of "it's still on her mind."
No, I'm— I just had issue with describing it as 'over-exaggerating', love, because when you say overexaggerating, it means making it a bigger deal than it actually is. And I don't feel like I'm making it a bigger deal than it actually is.
No, love, I'm not saying that you're making it a bigger deal than it is.
Okay. [unintelligible]
What I'm just saying, the message so far is "I have let go of it a long time ago, to be fairly honest, but it's still on Kyla's mind." That is it.
Okay.
That is the message so far.
But love, you don't have to be this defensive. I am not trying to— I don't have complaints about this, love. I'm just telling you how I feel about it. But you explained it to me and I understand it now. How do you want to finish that message and—?
I don't know.
"I think you should talk—"
I don't know, love.
"—to her about it instead of me, because it's not—" I don't know, "a big deal to me anymore"? Or "if you have questions, you can say it in that group chat, and it's okay to talk Dutch, and she's fine"? I don't know. I don't know how you want to finish it. I'm not rushing you. I'm going to go grab my food, and I'm going to sit here with you, and please remember that no one's trying to hurt you. This is not— I am so sorry that you got dragged into this conversation, but this is not— I know you didn't want to have this conversation. This is not on you, love. I'm sorry. Okay? And I am pretty fucking sure that we all love you, Sven.
Yes, love. I love you, too.
I'll grab my food while you figure it out, okay?
Yeah.
I'm sorry. I'm sorry for your discomfort right now.
full screenshots to final sent messages discussed in this recording is available in the original main post unpacking this event here: https://shortstoriesk.blogspot.com/2026/05/ellie-unpacking-break-up-unpacking-wip.html
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